NEWSLETTER

December 2005/January 2006

Merry Christmas to you all

Maybe 2005 was a great year for you (for many it was a wonderful year - and with the help of Grapevine), and maybe it wasn't such a good year at all and you can't wait for it to finish and a new year to start. Fresh beginnings. For those of you who can't wait to put 2005 behind you, perhaps you can work with Grapevine to make 2006 your year.

You will remember playing snakes and ladders as a child - or perhaps more recently playing it with your own children - and I can see a parallel in the process of finding a partner! However, in the dating game you are playing alone - just you and the dice - no partner (yet!). You have no way of knowing which way the dice will fall. Whether you whizz up all the ladders and get to 'finish' without sliding down any snakes at all, or whether every time you land it's onto the head of another darned snake and down you go again (and I do so hate that long snake with a head on square 99 nearly at the end of the game that takes you right back down to square 2). In the end though, if you keep rolling the dice and keep on playing, the ladders do win. This is because you can't go further down than square one so you don't go into 'negative' numbers. Much of dating, like the throw of a dice, is up to chance. Who you happen to meet. Who happens to join. Where they happen to live. What they themselves happen to be looking for. Whether they respond to your emails. Whether you happen to find them attractive etc. etc. etc. The snakes (perhaps aptly named??) are the problems you may encounter along the way, non-replies, rejections, disillusionment and so on, and the ladders are the successful encounters, the positive things that happen, the new friends made, the enjoyable evenings out, renewed self-confidence etc. - and square 100 is BINGO, someone really special - someone you want to stop dating all others for!   I know that some people do seem to have dice loaded more in their favour than others, but I suppose that is just life:(  Better than snakes and ladders though, dating is not completely out of your hands and simply no more than just a game of chance. You can, with things such as charm, real effort and not aiming unreastically, hasten your way up those ladders and avoid some of the snakes - and if you have the stamina there is no limit to the number of times you can roll that dice!

Until next time......

From Katherine

PS. Grapevine is not a 'dating site'. I know this can be confusing to Internet daters! Grapevine, as you can see from our newsletters, is more of a personal service. If anybody wants reminding how we work just go to the site (link at end) and click FAQ or go to www.singlesgrapevine.co.uk/upgrade.htm

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CONTENTS
1. Emails
2. Dating 
3. Email problems and advice
4. Expectations
5. Age
6. This and That
7. Photos & Etiquette
8. The WINE BAR - your contributions
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1. Some Recent EMAILS from Members (and matters arising).
(Please don't be afraid to email me for fear of my publishing your emails. I omit or slightly change identifying details without altering the actual message so that the 'other party' won't recognise him/herself!)

Let's start as usual with a few of the many emails both good and not so good from you, the members - and points arising.

"Dear Katherine, As Christmas approaches, Mike and I are busy with mistletoe and joy! It is thanks to Singlesgrapevine, of course, that we are together at all. We are happy and we wish you a wonderful time over the festive season. Let's hope 2006 will bring you much business resulting in the happiness of many couples. Love and peace, Cynthia"

"I just write to (happily) advise that I am no longer 'available', and would be grateful if you would stop sending my details to other members. Thanks to you, I have met a wonderful man - he is kind, gentle, funny and makes me laugh. I am told I now go around with a silly grin on my face and I feel like a teenager again! I sincerely wish others the happiness I have found. You might like to use this to encourage other lady members who are in the 'less eligible age group' to take heart, it really can happen!" Very soon after this I received the following email from the gentleman in question: "Just to inform you that I have been very fortunate to meet a wonderful lady through your organisation...I thank you for your assistance and good advice, and for enabling me to meet such a lovely person.."

This is from a lady who used the snakes and ladders principal! "I have met a lot of different people in my search.....all the Grapevine dates I contacted answered me, and although (after meeting) they were not for me, I wasn't rude or offhand with any of them...after all they too are wanting the same as me - which is happiness and I respect that totally..." This was until she met T"..he is just gorgeous and we have so much in common it's amazing. He is lovely and has stolen my heart...joining Grapevine is the best thing I ever did...I am now very, very, happily spoken for..."

Here is a nice twist on the theme of a member having met someone outside Grapevine: "..thank you for the last profile but hurrah I don't think I need any more! I have met a nice man - ironically it was just after going on a Grapevine date and staying behind in the pub on my own!...I'm leaving Grapevine with 3 nice email friends (the last of which I thought was lovely but hey, bad timing!) and a sense that this funny old game is probably worth some effort and optimism! Thanks again for all your kind and supportive words over the last few lonely months".

I receive a great number of emails from people who do eventually meet someone elsewhere - and many say their experience with Grapevine has given them the confidence to try other things and that is great. Here is one more: "... no thanks to a membership extension, I have indeed met someone, though not through Singles Grapevine. Had this meeting not happened however, I would certainly have upgraded my membership as I found your service most professional."

"Hello Katherine, Firstly I would like to say a big thankyou, yes I am currently in a relationship with a Grapevine contact. It is going very well - even from the onset there was that certain magic spark so I will keep you informed of the progress."

There is often that inevitable gulf between the 'service and support' part of membership and the behaviour and commitment of certain other single people. This must be the same anywhere you go - probably worse - because I don't even send out details of any new Grapevine member who won't reply to emails from myself for a start! also, I vet all application forms and I get rid of any 'undesirables' though it's unfortunate that very very occasionally (and it's extremely rare) it is a member who has to find out:"...as you know, I'm an ex-member of Grapevine and very happy with my partner who was a member too.....just to make you aware that one member ..'(very much 'ex' member I will add!) '..has sent me a very very rude and inappropriate nude picture showing his ****.....I can forward you the rude email/picture if you like..." No thanks!!

This from a gentleman who has had trouble getting replies from younger ladies (not the most reliable age group for answering dating emails unfortunately), but he appreciates my support: "...I wanted to add that I am impressed with the attention to detail you go into and I feel that there is a person there to help when things are difficult", and another from a slightly older and much unhappier gentleman:"...thanks for you help, advice, encouragement and efforts to make this work, I do appreciate it and I hope that you don't take my comments as any criticism of you, or the service you provide. I'm afraid I have had my fill of rude women...it's not just Grapevine that has made me feel this way, I have tried speed dating and also six months of internet dating last year made me feel totally fed up and I have lost confidence in myself. I'm buying a dog or turning gay, can't decide yet. Which one do you think will be less messy?" All I could say was that my own three young dogs are both messy and very noisy. Callers speaking to me on the phone may have heard them play fighting in the background and if they didn't realise I have dogs they may well have wondered what sort of establishment I really run!!

"Hi Katherine, you gave me free membership twice and I have to thank you for that because out of the blue I got mail a few weeks ago and we have met about 5 times now. Thank you so much - I am on Cloud 9!!!" Lucky free member!

This from a lady who is giving it another go with her ex: "...I have been very impressed by your prompt responses and courtesy and I think that you work extremely hard at what you do and would recommmend you to anyone who does not want the conventional internet dating sites." It's nice to be appreciated, because I really do take it to heart when things, despite all my efforts, don't go well for people.

"Thanks for your prompt reply - excellent customer care, as usual!"

"Thank you Katherine - I must compliment you on the prompt service that Grapevine offers - very impressed so far!" This is from a new young lady. Again, I can do everything possible to help but the bit which is out of my hands is a big 'unknown'. Who will she actually meet? Exactly who may join? How will she get on?

The next lady is one of the many lucky ones: "Thank you for sending me the selection of dates 2 weeks ago. I took your advice and bit the bullet, making contact with one person on the sheet..Great news, we hit it off straight away and met up on Saturday - just for coffee. It turned out to be a fantastic first date lasting 12 hours. Is that a record? As one of my friends commented via txt, 'Well either the coffee was good or he was!'. We've decided to give it a go and see what happens (Can't believe this is happening so quickly)..."

"Thank you for the newsletter which, as ever, is encouraging and upbeat. I haven't yet found 'the answer' but know that it's out there somewhere and your missives can only help me in the process."

"...Your organization is very very helpful to people who are looking for their soul mates.."

"Dear Katherine, Many thanks for the email...I am in a relationship with a Grapevine member which is lovely...."

Sadly, quite a proportion of all new relationships, wherever the couple may have met, don't last the course do they. I don't know what the percentage is, but many who met someone through Grapevine do come back to try again, so they must have some faith in the system. "Hello Katherine,....last time I emailed you I told you how lucky I was to have found X...I think I must have spoken too soon as I am afraid the relationship has petered out....I would like to try again....After using other dating agencies I still think Grapevine is the best and your personal involvement makes it all the more special."

I think this one will last: "Hi Katherine, prompted by your newsletter I thought I would let you know that I am still seeing the lovely guy I contacted through Grapevine back in February. Love is very much in the air and our relationship is growing into something very lasting....keep up the good work, and thanks for the part you played in your happiness."

"Have met a wonderful woman through our service...please remove me from your circulation details..thank you again for the wonderful service..."

Grapevine is primarily a service and support system with dates attached. I have just received a message from a lady who put an ad.in the paper and was overwhelmed by too many totally unsuitable (and many not even really single) men and she feels Grapevine, by sifting through people for her first, is her answer.

"Thanks Katherine - I am very happy with the level of individual service you offer - it's very refreshing." And another: "Thanks for your pervious emails, I have been impressed with the level of enthusiasm and commitment to the service you provide!"

Here's one worth a smile - talk about forward planning! Apologies to the gentleman who wrote this if meant it differently to how it sounds! "Hello Katherine, nice to hear from you, I am in a relationship at the moment however I would like to take out new membership in the New Year if that's okay....."

And a lovely one to finish. "I just want you to know I have found a wonderful woman through Grapevine who means the world to me after a very difficult period in my life..we text each other daily and can't wait to be with each other....I can't thank you enough for putting us in touch with one another."

So, my message to all the people still searching and many of whom become discouraged, take note of some of the above emails:-) Many of the people quoted will have been feeling just like yourself, and then suddenly, everything changed!

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2. Dating

Putting in the Effort
Further to the snakes and ladders idea, unless they are one of the lucky ones who whizz up all the ladders straight away, people must not only persist but must also be prepared to put themselves out! You probably get sick of my saying this - sorry! Get a really nice photo taken, for instance (why not?) - if your photo doesn't look nice you will get no contacts. Risk 'wasting' an hour or two actually meeting people who may fall short of your idea of perfection (why not?). Where some people would not think twice about paying the price of a membership to fill their tank with petrol just once, they are not prepared to invest any money at all, or to travel for even half an hour, in their quest for a partner. Crazy. One lady living in London has no car and says her dates must also live in the same part of London as herself - but what about London transport? For a lucky very eligible few, sitting back and crying 'COME AND GET ME!' works - but not for most of us!

Here is an email from a recently joined lady: "...How do I know whether the gentlemen forwarded have actually paid to join or not? I agree with you that if someone is willing to pay even a little it shows some kind of commitment to the process...although I am currently having a nice time dating someone I was a bit taken aback when he and the previous man more or less said that they had registered to just see what would happen as it cost nothing. It kind of took away my comfort blanket thinking we were both looking for someone special and willing to put up £s where it mattered. Nevertheless still enjoying myself.." Unfortunately, without free members there could be no Grapevine. There would be insufficient members for dating. Without paying members there would be no Grapevine either! In the old days before 'free' internet dating nobody would have expected to join an agency free of charge, but that has all changed now. Many a free member has become half of a very happy couple, but financially it makes for a very tight margin between outgoings (mainly advertising and internet costs, and tax) and incomings (subscriptions).

Confidentiality
With many internet dating sites it is possible to see exactly who is actively dating, how long they have been in there for and with some sites even how many people they have contacted and exactly when. Seems an invasion of privacy to me - or an encouragement to cheat and sign up again under a different name. Here is an email from a lady who started as a free Grapevine member: "...I'd like some advice, my plan is to upgrade, but I've been contacted by email by one of the members and am planning on meeting the gentleman in question in the next 2 weeks. The reason I've not upgraded yet is this - he'll probably see that I've upgraded my membership and could take offence - do you have any thoughts on this matter?" So this was my reply, "No problem with that. We are not an internet dating site so he can't 'see' your details at all. If he has received them already then he can't get them again. Nobody can see the state of another member's membership, and quite rightly so in my opinion. It's nothing to do with them and can cause a lot of problems:-)" I would also say that a system that shows someone's dating history actually penalises those who have not met early success as many people will only go for the 'new' members. In dating sites members quickly pass their 'shelf life' if people see they have been there for a while which is why people keep rejoining with different nicknames.

If any Grapevine member wants to avoid a certain individual from receiving their details or even knowing that they are a member - their ex perhaps - I can ensure their privacy!
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3. Email problems and advice

Non-replies (again)
It's not all lovely for everyone and 'happy' emails can be quite upsetting for people who are having negative experiences such as this gentleman: "...I must confess that I am becoming increasingly disappointed to be sent a profile only to be knocked back when I attempt to make contact....to say that I'm disillusioned is putting it mildly!" Whilst there will be a few of you who identify with this, it is extremely unusual I must say, and my job is to look into each case, to find out why the person didn't respond and possibly stop circulating their details. I also like to see the email the member him/herself sends out, because so often it doesn't encourage or invite a reply. People who become very negative can almost invite failure because it's what they are expecting and it is very difficult to encourage them to become a bit more up-beat.

Here is an example of an email that did not encourage replies. I'm sure the gentleman in question will not mind my quoting this: "Hi X, I have received your profile and we seem to share a number of interests. Is it OK to phone you? Let me know, or phone me if you prefer." Now, the ladies in question are unlikely to know this chap from Adam, so would you feel inclined to answering an email like this from a complete stranger that says absolutely nothing about himself, and shows no interest in you either?   After this he revised his approach and anyone would be very pleased to receive one of his 'new' emails which he showed me - and he started getting replies straight away.

Quite often people who have joined more things than just Grapevine get muddled, and some tell me regularly about lots of non-replies when it turns out the people in question don't even belong to Grapevine! "...Thanks for the update. I also belong to another introduction agency so may have got muddled up with X - maybe he was off that one. If so, it's no wonder he never replied to my email titled 'singles grapevine' - it would help if I got that right...." Bless her!

Here is a troubling quote from an email and something else for me to sort out - by telephone I think! The gentleman in question has been a paid-up Gold member for several months and this is the first I have heard of it: "...I got in touch with X whose details were sent to me and I was a little taken aback when his daughter replied saying she dealt with her dad's affairs and had signed him up knowing he doesn't use the computer..." (Did she pay for him too??)

This month there was a gentleman who had two email addresses - I don't know how it could happen but only worked for outgoing emails and the other for incoming ones! The email he emailed out on wasn't the one people saw who received his email. If anybody replied it would bounce back. He took about two weeks to sort this out and meanwhile people thought they were being ignored. I eventually got through to this chap by sending him a series of text messages. When members don't get a reply they often understandably assume that either the other person is very rude or else that they are being rejected. However, a great majority of non-replies are 'innocent'.

A new young lady had no replies from three gentlemen, so I emailed them with 'Can you please help?' in the subject line and within a few hours I had this message from the lady; "Thank you so much Katherine. They all got back to me this morning!" It's vital to make sure there is something in the subject line - 'I have received your details from Grapevine' for instance. One gentleman started putting 'Grapevine member, make my day, please reply' with immediate result!!

Every member whose details that I send out is either a new member, or has reassured me within the past few weeks that he/she is free for dating. I send out hundreds of personal emails every week to members that I have not heard from for a while. Those in circulation all say they have 'read and understood' the conditions - which include replying to emails! In spite of this, getting emails read and replied to is my BIGGEST PROBLEM. I spend hours a week on this alone. Sometimes all I can do is to say to the member who can't get a reply - 'cut your losses, I shall replace or credit you with that date', and then I don't send out that person's details ever again.

Some people feel too proud to let me follow up non-replies. One lady a few days ago said 'I would never chase up a man', but as you can see from the above, very very often it's nothing personal - they don't know you. People can get tied up with their own lives and problems, it may be a bad or very busy time for them so they put it aside for 'later', and a little bit of outside intervention can do no harm and I know of quite a few happy couples that have been the result. The email often is in a spam account and a text can be sent 'check your emails pls'.

I had emailed this man personally for about the 4th time to see if he had understood the conditions and confirm he was free to date. "Hi there, I have been getting your emails but chose to ignore them...."  Grrrrrrrrr

Here's another (need I say Hotmail again): "Your messages were in my junk folder and I don't always check it."

And, "I am sorry I have not contacted you but I have just found your message in the spam section of my email account...sorry for the inconvenience I have caused."

This email comes from a lady who joined quite recently. "...it's quite disheartening not getting any response and it takes enough courage as it is to email in the first place - if someone is ignoring you then it feels as if you must be desperate to keep emailing when the are clearly not interested..." though that is an assumption which may well not be the case..."it would be a lot easier if people had the good grace to reply and say they're not interested rather than just giving no response." 

The next lady did reply - sometimes you just can't win! She told me that after she had replied to an email and declined very kindly and tactfully, she was met with a very rude reply. She says, "some people take for granted that if they write to someone they have the god given right to expect that person to want to engage with them."

I quote bad news so people who are having problems realise they are not alone, but I'll finish this with one which is much more representative of the usual situation. "Hi Katherine, a bit of feedback for you.....I have now received the details of ten ladies in all so far, I emailed six of them and after a bit of chasing up (with your help) five replied......I have actually met three so far and one several times who will be a good friend I hope but I have not found romance yet. I'm happy with what you are doing and feel things are going in the right direction..."

So, look carefully at the wording of your emails, don't be too proud to follow people up - even text to see if they have received the email. And remember, the very very great majority of emails do get a reply within a few days and often within a few hours.

The FOUR RULES for getting a reply are: Put someting relevant in the SUBJECT LINE, Say two or three INTERESTING things about yourself (not just statistics, height etc.), say something INTERESTING about the other person to show you take personal interest them - a bit of charm goes a long way, and finally always ASK FOR A REPLY. Remember, the person you are emailing may not know you from Adam (or Eve).
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4. Expectations
One lady in a not very eligible age group who joined recenlty has just received her third profile and says she 'can't cope with all this choice', and on the same day a gentlemen of the same sort of age who received the details of eighteen ladies a week previously is asking when does he receive some more! Some people just value every opportunity and make the very best of it and others in certain age groups who are spoilt may just 'cherry pick'. Again, the concept of internet dating has given people the impression that dates are limitless and disposable.

This gentleman says "I must admit that the stage may have been reached where I wonder if I'm asking for updates automatically but not trying hard enough with the previous batch..."

Lake versus Ocean
It is this support that people who join Grapevine pay for - and of course to receive the details of other single people. Grapevine cannot have the size of database as, say, Match.com nor do we wish to.You wouldn't go into a helpful owner-run boutique and expect it hold the same sort of stock as a hypermarket chain, would you! I liken using Grapevine to fishing in a maintained lake of known fish in clean water as opposed to internet dating - fishing in the ocean where there will be millions of fishes amongst lots of other undesirable stuff besides (polution;). Many people are very happy to trawl the ocean for themselves and of course it is very successful. Grapevine is a different thing. It's a matter of choice. Many people, with great success, end up by doing both - but starting off with Grapevine has in particular helped many of those who are new to the whole thing, and   also many of those who have become disillusioned with internet dating.

"Hi Katherine....I just want to see what your service is like. I'm a bit fed up with feeling like a commodity on the Internet Datng sites!"

"Dear Katherine, thank you for your prompt response! I found the site really reassuring with many aspects that some other sites don't seem to have considered...."

New to dating
This email is from a new lady. "...out of the 8 potential matches you have sent me, I have decided to contact 5 of them...I just hope they all respond. Anyway, I was extremely nervous about rejoining the human race after the break up of my 11-year relationship, and have appreciated the supportive emails from you - and I loved the newsletter...."

Here is another: "Thanks for your email, I have more confidence now. I like the way you deal with this so personally, it's like talking it over with a girlfriend in a way!...."

Being realistic
It’s of course sensible to aim for the sort of person who is most likely to find you eligible from their point of view.  Tom down the road may be a dream for Lucy in the next village, but not at all eligible to Zara Phillips (and what would her mother say!).

A gentleman sent me this email: "...This dating thing is more difficult now as I think people realise that they can be out on a different date every week, or even a few times a week (the most eligible or least choosy types perhaps). It's easy to think that there is something better just around the corner so why make an effort with people if they are not just what you are looking for. I think you are right that in the past you perhaps appreciated meeting someone more because it might not happen every day, and you were prepared to give it a chance. Guess it's just something that you have to deal with today with the popularity of the internet...."

Here's another email from a lady who is becoming rather cynical! "..another category of man is the widower who had the perfect wife and is seeking to replace her exactly! It is impossible to compete with the perfections of a deceased wife. This is the other end of the spectrum to the guy who complains about his ghastly ex. No doubt it goes for women too. I suspect that this perfection may sometimes be only in retrospect!..." It does go for women too. There are many ladies who have been married for years to highly professional gentlemen (many of whom have left them for a younger woman), and nothing less will do for them. There will be few such men, however, needing agencies, and those that do will sadly be seeking a younger lady. They do - because they can as they say!!

Here is an email from a new lady who appreciates the situation for her at the outset. "Many thanks Katherine - it seems incredible to be communication with a real person!...I'm aware that not only do I live in a sparsely populated out-of-the-way place, but I am also interested in the age group of men in which there seems to be the shortage! However, I can also see nothing ventured nothing gained...."
               
Self-delusion is the enemy of successful dating.  I could give countless examples where members simply aim for people who would refuse to meet them. In most cases they realise this and are still not willing to compromise.  They blame the other person for being unsuitable rather than themselves, or Grapevine for ignoring their wishes - but it's a two-way street, isn't it.  I could tell countless stories illustrating the gulf between a member’s wishes and what they are really likely to achieve because, unlike with shopping for goods, the buyer him/herself is equally important.

'Happy the man who early learns the wide chasm that lies between his wishes and his powers!’ (Johann W. von Goethe)

So you’re fussy? That’s good.  It is a sign of how highly you rate your self-worth.  People like someone with self-confidence - but you need to be reasonable! Unless you are a Brad Pitt or a Keira Knightley, you may need to work on being a catch if you are very fussy and want to ‘hook’ that special much-sought-after type of person!

The realism self-test:
Draw up a profile of the sort of person you want to meet, then a profile of what you realistically (no self-delusion!) feel that sort of person would themselves want to meet.
                               
If the two lists don’t match up, how wide is the gulf?  There is a lot you can do and a lot you can’t do! You can get a good photo, you can lose weight, you can be well-groomed, but you can't grow six inches or lose ten years, can you.

Why is it some people have success every time, and some have such problems? I believe it’s because the successful daters have achieved the right balance between who they want and who would want them, and on top of it all they have a liberal sprinkling of charm.

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5.Age (again)
If there is one thing that makes me want to give up this job, it's the age thing. It can drive me absolutely mad! (On the whole, this doesn't apply to the many many members under about 40, bless them!)

Nearly all people say they are younger for their age than other people of their same age and sex - but they don't believe it when someone of the opposite sex says the same thing!

I guess if I took an average of the age group men in their fifties say they want, it's ladies between 35 and 45 (some say a lot younger of course). If I were to take an average of the same thing ladies of the same age are looking for age-wise in a man, it would be in their fifties. Something somewhere has to give! The difference is, these men as I said before do because they can (there will always be younger ladies willing to meet them), but though I am often emailed by ladies whose last partner was 10 years younger than themselves, it is still pretty unusual so you could say in their case that they don't because they can't!

Ladies are much more independent today and no longer see their future as being the younger woman who is going to be there to nurse an old codger and then be a widow when she herself is too old to start again. In fact, a lot of women are looking for a man younger than themselves ('young for his age' isn't good enough for her any more than 'young for her age' is good enough for a man!).

This is how a gentleman (he feels very reasonably) put it: "I have been out on a date already with a very nice lady, although she is active, a bit too old for me. I am as all who know me a very young looking 50 ....I am quite fit (lucky I suppose)....I do tend to get on better with girls younger than myself, as I find I have more in common and they have more chance to keep up with my pace of life so to speak....I hope this is OK to notify you, only age is a very touchy subject with most ladies". Well!   Life being as it is, he will end up getting what he wants but I could be rich if I had a fiver for every email I received similar to this!
 
And this is a resonse from a lady of the same age who, (she feels very reasonably) contacted men in her own age band: "..I contacted a few chaps..and I suspect they were looking for something superficial, a 'no ties, no fling' rather than something genuine, even a genuine friendship. Probably a numbers game, but in the meantime I think it's also important to get out and meet people socially, keep our sense of balance on the subject and not become too intense about the search for that special person.."

I received this press release from Mature Times - here are a few of their comments.
The over-50s (both men and women) are far more preoccupied with love, sex and personal relationships than issues like pensions, healthcare and tax....our most vigorous debate in the last year has been about the problems of dating and forming new relationships over 50.

The debate was sparked by a reader complaining about the lack of older men looking for long-term relationships..Philip Hodson, well known for many appearances in the media, says: "One of the problems is that - well into their 50s and 60s and beyond, many men are over-interested in a no-strings fumble while many women are over-interested in domestic security. So there's a real risk of a 'mismatch' of expectations once you get beyond the first date...That said there is a huge potential for very happy 'second time around relationships'. By the time you are 50 you should know that nobody is perfect, especially yourself, and be prepared to celebrate your differences." Tony Watts of Mature Times concludes: "The debate is a critical one...statistically we know that living alone, especially for the older generation, is harmful to your health, creating depression and decline. We are increasingly a nation of loners, with divorce rates amongst older people rising, exacerbating the fact that most women live longer than men."

However, I know from running Grapevine, that many many men in this age group ARE GENUINELY SEEKING SOMEONE SPECIAL. Because of the personal nature of Grapevine (as opposed to internet dating) we do discourage men who are openly looking for nothing more than just 'fumble and fun' (women too!!), and we are a bit more likely to attract those who are looking for a serious relationship - particularly those who have not joined free.

Anyone who would like to read just a few of the many emails from ladies in this age group who have found love and a proper relationship with a gentleman in their own age group through Grapevine, can go to www.singlesgrapevine.co.uk/ladiesletters.htm
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6.This and That
I saw an article promoting a new internet dating site for people with children - or if they didn't have children themselves they would be happy to meet those with children. My first reaction was - what a good idea. I looked at the site - very nice. Then I remembered why, having been in this business for years, I never ask for the actual age or gender of Grapevine members' children. Children should not be personalised. It could be dangerous if having children should become a REASON to meet someone - do we want to attract the likes of Gary Glitter? So,unfortunately, a big thumbs down to a nice looking site.

These statistics are from a recent Radio 4 programmed passed on to me by the ABIA (and I presume they are not counting children and babies).
In 1991 there were 13 men to 12 women
In 2001 there were 12 men to 13 women
These from Mintel:
Half a million adults use introduction agencies
6 million use internet dating
(Grapevine doesn't fit into either category really but is more like and introduction agency than internet dating site - and there is a lot of overlap between the two I know).
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7. Photos & Etiquette (again)

Photos
For the sake of new members, I repeat from before these basic instructions about the sort of photo we would like to include.

No photo at all is much better than a bad one! A careless photo looks as though you don't feel it's worth the effort which is a total turn-off for anyone who receives your details. No photo can look like lack of effort also - though I know many people would prefer to exchange photos personally with people for reasons of confidentiality. Here is a rough guide to the sort of photo Grapevine likes to include - and if you don't have a good one, why not go and get a good one taken? this is important!
1. Head and shoulders is all we use, and can crop if necessary, (if you are a small speck in a large photo then it will be too fuzzy!).
2. Not scruffy. Look smart or smart/casual if you seriously want people to contact you. Dressed is essential - for instance standing by a pool with dripping hair is not appropriate here.
3. Dignified. We don't want alluring semi-naked staged photos - people can always send any photos they wish direct to the other person. The photo is meant to show what a person you could meet looks like and useless if you wouldn't recognise them from the photo.
4. Honesty. Make sure the photo is recent. If a gentleman is bald, nobody is fooled if the top of his head is cut off the photo!
5. Be seen. If you are wearing dark glasses your face can't be seen. If you are wearing a hat you can't be seen properly either.
6. Don't use webcam. Photos taken by yourself look sad. They are invariably distorted or too close-up and do you no favour at all. A photo booth would be better.
7. Face Forward and look approachable. Try not to look unhappy - though laughing isn't necessary either. Try to look friendly and confident. Look into the camera.

Etiquette (for the sake of new members I have left this section in from last time)
Quite a lot of emails between me and members concerns uncertainty over the date itself - and this is usually the gentlemen I must say. Anyway - this is usually my response though you may not agree with it!: "If you were going out with me I would expect you to welcome me, buy first drinks and then I would expect to pay for the next round. I also would always offer to pay my share of a meal." Some men - especially older ones - insist, so it's not worth too much arguing! (A few I'm sad to say, both men and women, even feel they are doing the other person a favour by meeting them, and they leave the flabbergasted person with the whole bill!!! )

My advice is:
Don't be late.
Never stand someone up.
Dress appropriately (smart/casual?). Looking scruffy/dirty hair/unshaven (men!) is inexcusable when the other party will probably have put in the effort. Nose picking, beard picking and scratching definitely a no-no (I've heard it all - believe me!). Ladies - dress code not toooo sexy or too much make-up. Gentlemen - be at the venue first if possible, be welcoming. Helping the other person makes you forget about yourself! If he/she's hard work then at least you have done your bit.
Show interest and listen as well as talk. Difficult when you're a bit nervous because you feel frightened of silences!
Don't run down or ‘slag off’ past dates or your ex. It's very intimidating to date someone who tells you on the first date that he/she has belonged to every dating site there is and has lost count of how many dates he/she has been on.
Don't avoid eye contact - people don't like that!
Don't talk on mobile phone during a first date
Don't take a child or friend on a date (this unbelievably sometimes happens)
Don't escape through the toilet window!
Have a little humility. No other member of the human race is so unworthy that you can't be courteous for half an hour of your time should you find you have met someone you are not attracted to
Go Dutch on first date
Don't drink too much!

8. The WINE BAR…….. the place where you, the members, can meet!
This is YOUR place in the newsletter where you could potentially get what you want to say to thousands of people throughout the UK. It's never too late to add your piece as the newsletter is constantly updated and going out to new members. You may, for instance, like to start a dinner group in your area — or just organise a one-off meal. Here is the place to promote it.

******Retrieving personal emails from different computers
Here is some useful information kindly given to us by a new member in I.T.:
'A lot of people assume that the only place they can retrieve their personal emails is from their own home computer. A lot of people also use computers with internet access at work. They may well use their work email address as their point of contact for Grapevine which means they can send and receive Grapevine correspondence from work (during their lunchbreak of course!) But if you don't do this and have an independent email address from an internet service provider which you use for private use at home, you can (usually) still access your emails by using this web site.  www.mail2web.com     Simply go to this page (at work when you're on your lunch and nobody's watching!), type in your home email address and password and click 'Check Email'. Couldn't be simpler! And you can get your emails this way from any computer, anywhere in the world that is connected to the internet.

Alternatives are of course the web based email providers such as Microsoft's Hotmail. (Personally not my choice.)' Mine neither!

******Surrey Singles
 I am a 46 year old gentleman, looking to develop a social group in the Surrey area for good company, evenings out, evenings in, concerts, walks.....and anything else that takes our fancy! So if you are interested in a fun start to the festive season, then please contact Chris at xxxxxx

******Making a new start
Are you in a relationship that is not working for you? Many of us stay in such relationships because we cannot think of a way out. It takes a lot of courage to just walk out. Many of us are afraid of being lonely so 'better the devil you know'. Some of us do this even when we no longer love the person we are with. Why not use the services of a specialist psychic to obtain a neutral second opinion? You may just get the help you need and what a relief to know that you are not losing your mind. Call Brian "the reluctant psychic" Snellgrove on 020 8670 4344 or visit his web site  or write info@save-your-relationship.co.uk

******Northern Ireland - socialising for singles
Northern Ireland may not be the hottest of places for dating agencies, but
the end of the tunnel has a few strong lights. One of which is LETSGO
www.letsgoni.com - for whom I have worked as Webmaster for four years.
Certainly not a dating agency, just a group of single people getting out and
about to dinners, walks, dances and other events. Why not see what they have
to offer? Mark (member 24988) xxxxxxxx

******Isle of Man
If any of our Isle of Man members would like to meet over dinner, one of our ladies has started 'Invitations'. Groups of 6 compatible diners - 3 ladies, 3 gents - will be invited to a 3-course dinner party in a private house - a way of making 5 new friends with luck. Email xxxxxxxxx

******Cambridge/Suffolk Area over 50s
Two mature, but young at heart, ladies are looking to start up an informal Club/Group, in the Cambridgeshire/Suffolk area, for unattached people ranging between the ages of 50 and 65 wishing to improve their social life. The aim ideally is to get an equal balance of male/female members. If there is sufficient interest, the first get together will probably be in the form of a dinner group somewhere central to the area, which will give us a chance to decide which leisure events can be organised, e.g. dancing, dining, walking groups or any other social activities you may like to suggest. This will be a good opportunity to meet up with like-mined people for entertaining conversation, good food and enjoyable events. I'm sure you'll agree that any group is only as good as the members make it, so here’s your chance to make a difference – do pick up the phone, we’d love to hear from you.
If this is an idea that appeals to you, please register your interest by e-mailing to xxx giving your name, address, phone number and e-mail address.
******Get out and Socialise in the South
Grapevine member would like to set up an informal social group for unattached people between the ages of 40 and 60 who live in the Portsmouth/Southampton/Winchester areas and would like to meet new people in informal and relaxed environments. Here's your chance to extend your circle of friends, both male and female. It is envisaged that initially the group will meet up at wine bars, pubs or restaurants depending on numbers. If you are interested please e-mail xxxxxxxxx

******Social Group in Buckinghamshire
Two's Company - the aim of this group is for members to extend their circle of unattached friends. We meet every other Wednesday in Villiers Hotel, Buckingham. For further information please e mail Judith at xxxxxxx

******Activity Group in South Wales
Derek, an ex-member belongs to an activity group in South Wales based in Cardiff and thinks those of you living in his area or just visiting for a week or two may be interested. He says the members are a lovely group of people, warm and friendly. The website is

******Meet At Last Singles Parties - London area
Meet at Last is singles parties without the pressure for fabulous singletons – just turn up, meet some people and have fun. No formal introductions or speed dating, no name badges or gimmicks, simply a great night out. Visit the site to see when the next party is. Tickets are around £15 with the option of a pre-party warm up get together with TV Dating Coaches Jo & Kirsty for just £25.  Tickets must be booked in advance – places are limited. To book your ticket visit  or email the organiser Clare at clare@meetatlast.com with any queries.

******Image Consultant
This email is from a gentleman who found this very useful: "...I don't think you could say to somebody that they should see an Image Consultant but if it came up in conversation Linda Balint of First Impressions would be worth a call.  She's on lbalint@btinternet.com"

******Far Infrared Sauna - for the ultimate in well-being
My neighbours have now been using their far infrared sauna for a few months, and if I had somewhere to put it I would definitely have one myself - I think I could do with it! It seems to do just about everything, and checking on the internet I don't think its claims are exaggerated. It seems that regular use of this kind of far infrared sauna gets rid of toxins in a certain way, and there is a marked improvement in all sorts of things - skin and hair, general pain (headaches, joint pain etc.), resistance to infection...but what interests me the most personally as many testimonials report (and which my neighbours verify already), is a general feeling of well-being and energy. I may be going over the top if I carry on any more - but why not phone Iain (member 14745) on xxxxxx for more information, or email him on ultimate.sauna@virgin.net

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Please keep in touch. I always respond to all your emails as quickly and as fully as I can. Don't forget to take a look at your own place in this newsletter - the Wine Bar - and get together with lots and lots of other single people.

from Katherine

PS. If you'd like to rejoin or upgrade and have dates of your own, please go to www.singlesgrapevine.co.uk/upgrade.htm

ABOUT FISHES AND PONDS

And finally.....fishing!
Looking for a partner can need a lot of patience, and like fishes, a lot of them seem to be slippery or don't want to be caught at all by you. Very frustrating! These fish also have a say in who reels them in! Some just don't bite, some fall off just as you are about to land them. I think the analogy is quite good. The more rare the type of fish you're looking for, the fewer there will be. In some lakes there are just too few fish of a certain kind and too many fishermen/women. Some people prefer to trawl with a wide net, catch as many as possible and discard those they don't want (ie. contact all the people they can), where others go for just one very particular sort and size of fish. Some use their bait more expertly...You may need a larger lake…I could go on and on…(some of you probably say that I do go on and on!). You may need to practice your fishing technique so you get more expert. I have also just heard this quote, 'If you don't like the fish you're catching, change the bait'. (Better photo? Re-style your approach?).

October/November 2005

Newsletter for members (past and present) This newsletter is sent to all members past and present who have given Grapevine their e-mail address. If you are an old member and don't wish to receive the newsletter any more, please reply with 'unsubscribe' along with your name and postcode in the subject line 

We are now on the downhill run to Christmas (oh dear!). If you are an active Grapevine member or a past members who is currently alone, let's see if we can make things happen for you - to find someone special to share the season with - or at least some good social life while you search. Don't leave it too late! I have a friend who buys all her presents in the January sales for the following Christmas which is far too much forward planning for someone like me who does most things on the spur of the moment. Thank goodness for internet shopping! With finding a partner though, because you don't have the same control as you have when buying a gift, it's wise to look ahead:-)

Many people really work at trying to find someone right for them - persisting even in the face of setbacks - while many others expect it to cost no more in terms of money or effort than going to the corner shop for a ready meal. It's when those members who regard it as a quest worth working at (like a lovely gentlemen who emailed me after trying again to arrange a date that didn't happen - saying 'am I jinxed?') come in contact with those who have a more casual attitude that we get difficulties.  Some people just want/need a partner more urgently than others. It's a free choice. We can't change the world - but have to run with it.

I wonder, how does a compatible person with whom to share life's ups and downs (to share the wonderful moments as well as the sad moments, to be there for you in sickness and in health etc.etc.) rate in importance compared with, say, owning a new car, buying a holiday or even a new home? All these things are so much better when shared, but sadly many people expect finding someone to love and to love them to just fall into their lap. Many won't even invest the same amount of time, money or effort into finding a partner that they would in going to their local supermarket to fill up their car with petrol. Are they playing, or are they serious?

For most people who are seriously looking for a partner, it is something which nowadays does involve payment, even in most reputable internet dating sites. Cost-wise the odds of success per pound spent are an awful lot higher than winning even a small prize in the lottery! (I wonder which would really make us happiest in the long run?)

In the dating scene an individual understandably can't and doesn't want to see the 'big picture' because quite naturally they are wrapped up in their own personal situation. They want/need someone special. Now. They want someone exactly to their own specifications. People have always considered this as a right - something everyone just 'had' for free. "Pay to find someone? I wouldn't do that!" But in the modern world the rules of the game have changed.

There is so much more going on in the 'big picture' that many of you would ever realise. For instance, members don't see is that people signing up online don't 'just happen upon Grapevine' as most think - we are only to be found as a result of hundreds of pounds worth of time-consuming internet promotion and advertising (Google etc) and newspaper advertising. Basically, I use members' money to advertise on their behalf, and then, recognising how fickle (many) single people can be, I do all I can to share problems, resolve them, make sure members are still available and to work towards success. This is an important job that I do - and along with the new car, house or holiday analogy just as valuable to people who are seriously seeking a partner as a car salesman, estate agent, mortgage broker, solicitor or travel agent!

Until next time......

From Katherine

PS. Grapevine is not a 'dating site'. I know this can be confusing to Internet daters! Grapevine, as you can see from our newsletters, is more of a personal service. If anybody wants reminding how we work just go to the site (link at end) and click FAQ or go to www.singlesgrapevine.co.uk/upgrade.htm

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CONTENTS

1.Emails & Emailing 
2.Dating 
3.Email problems and advice
4. Expectations
5. Age
6.Where new members come from
7.The WINE BAR - your contributions

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1. Some Recent EMAILS from Members (and matters arising).
(Please don't be afraid to email me for fear of my publishing your emails. I omit or slightly change identifying details without altering the actual message so that the 'other party' won't recognise him/herself!)

Let's start as usual with a few of the many emails both good and not so good from you, the members - and points arising. A really lovely rewarding one to begin:

"Dear Grapevine, About 18 months ago I joined on the recommendation of my brother who met his (now) wife via Grapevine. I must confess to being a touch sceptical, but I met a lovely lady and we got engaged a couple of months ago. We also are getting married next June and are both very happy. Thought you might like to hear about this good news (and my brother's). Thanks for the introduction."

"Thanks for the emails. This is the first time I've used anything like this...." This is a very common response from a new member. Grapevine can be a much more comfortable way for people to start dating and in many cases it gives them the courage to try other methods also. It's nice to think that we have so many members who are truly 'new' to the scene and have not had their details 'posted' for months on internet dating sites!  Here is another: "..I have never done this before so it feels very strange. However, I trust you and like the personal contact.."

It's always so nice to hear from members who have left a while ago. "Thank you for your newsletters. I am still seeing J who I met through Singles Grapevine nearly a year ago. It's been a fun year and I just wanted to say thank you." 

"Thanks to Grapevine I met K in April and we have been together ever since. Thank you so much. I tell everybody about Grapevine..."

"The newsletter was a reminder to me to say 'Thank you'. I met a wonderful gentleman through the first batch of profiles you sent, and we've been together for nearly nine months..." Anybody disheartened please now read the next bit - it brings a lump to the throat: "The advice you offered about not letting a couple of setbacks cause you to give up is so true. The first couple of dates were ALL wrong and one man's reply to my first couple of emails was a very hurtful statement about me being so unattractive only a blind man would date me.." (Incidentally I have her photo and this man must have big problems). "I could easily have given up the idea of finding someone special after THAT! Then I met my love - a sweet, caring, wonderful man who treats me with love, affection and respect. We've laughed together and cried together and I couldn't be happier."

As always I get emails from people who have met someone elsewhere but who nevertheless feel they have benefitted from Grapevine. "I have met a lovely guy..although I did not meet him through Grapevine, I want to thank you for all your help via newsletters and emails for helping me change my attitude and see that there could be someone out there for me.." Here is another: "Hi Katherine, Just to say thank you for being so efficient and lovely - I really enjoyed my time with Singles Grapevine. I've now been seeing a lovely gentleman for a few weeks and it seems to be going well. He's a friend of a friend..." And another: "I met someone when I wasn't expecting it and not through GS although I have to say you have a very professional service which I would certanly recommend."

Here is a mysterious email. "I was harassed by an eastern european manvia text for about 2 weeks and feel that the quality of your customers is a bit below average." I never got to the bottom of this and I suspect this was nothing to do with us, but I would say that because you Grapevine members are more accountable than internet daters you must be a bit above average!

"...thanks for the personal approach, it is appreciated - I know it's your business and everything but you wouldn't do it if you didn't enjoy it I'm sure and I really think it sets you apart from everyone else!" However much effort I put into the support side of things, I sadly have no control over other people or, unlike running a shop, over filling the shelves with the exact products that are running low!

Talking of running a business, many agencies have given up - eclipsed by internet dating. Here is an email from a lady who signed up recently and who had looked at my 'CV' online: "I also ran an introduction agency and did all the same things as you used to... due to the internet dating sites springing up which were free, I gave up my agency....I think the way you work now is much better than the other sites. Well done." It's possible Grapevine is unique because nobody else would be prepared to be quite as tied as I am. I have no free time, I can't leave it for even one day because I would never catch up, and there is insufficient money in it whilst keeping fees sensible to employ another person (difficult for you paying members to imagine, I expect, but you will have no idea of the outgoings!). Boo-hoo

"Thanks for the latest newsletter. I must say that I am impressed with the efficiency of your organisation and the obvious amount of time that you put in...."  

Here is an email from a new gentleman about his experience with internet dating and I would be lying if I said there isn't also an element of this in some (free) Grapevine members - men and women - whatever measures I take. It's a horrible sign of the times and I believe the 'easy come, easy go' unaccountability aspect of internet dating is largely to blame.  "..I have to say, although I have only recently joined Yahoo Personals' site I am astonished at the lack of courtesy displayed by most women, who in most cases can't be bothered to provide a simple reply! I mean I'm no Brad Pitt, but then I'm no Shrek either...their loss I suppose."

"...I have to agree with the people that sing your praises for such a personal service..I enjoyed reading the newsletter..love to hear some of the positive and funny stories".

"Dear Katherine, thank you for dealing with my membership application so quickly. It is good to feel that I am dealing with a 'real person' as opposed to an impersonal internet-based organisation."

And to finish: "Dear Katherine, thank you for all the new contacts you have sent me.....anyway, I thought you'd like to know I've met someone through Grapevine. It's been almost 8 weeks now and it looks like we might be in for the long haul!...I am extremely happy and want to thank you for the part you have played in bringing us together. I wish many others the joy I am experiencing."

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2. Dating

Fact: Nearly every person can be getting dates if they adjust their requirements sufficiently and if they put in the effort. It's up to them. I don't ask people to 'relax their standards' but only to realise that it is their own choice to 'fish in a small lake of rare fish'.  And, rather like in the fishing analogy at the end of each newsletter - they can cast a wider net.

It is largely a matter of attitude also. Here is a nice email from a new member: "....I wondered just how I could make a decision regarding who, if any, of the people I will want to contact based on just the information in the profiles.. Having read your newsletter I am prepared to write to them all....I suppose it's quite clever in a way because you just give a tiny bit of information, just enough to give a hint as to whether you might like the person..the rest is up to us to write to the person and find out." Exactly. A total stranger doesn't need your life story or your innermost psychological make-up!

The problem with saying too much initially - whether it is dress size (ladies!), newspaper your read or even if you like playing darts - you are giving people the opportunity to judge you on that alone. When people read a profile their eyes seem 'drawn' to the one thing they might not like about someone and they just don't see anything else. How many of our happy couple friends would be together if they'd had a check list?

"You sent me the details of X...for me he had all the ticks in all the 'boxes', his profile was EXACTLY who I'm looking for and he was a great man. Only 'box' not ticked turned out to be the chemistry one but you can't possibly know if that's going to happen until you meet."

This is from a lady who signed up then met someone elsewhere almost immediately. Fate is like that! "...I smile about your references in the newsletters about us all having this 'mental list' of qualities we are looking for; I can safely say that the man I am now seeing wouldn't be on it. That is not me 'just settling for him'', but me discovering that lists have no influence on 'the spark'! We get on wonderfully well and have many similarities, but on paper would simply never have matched up."

Some people get quite upset because they are not being contacted by lots of other members. Often these are free members who have no control over the situation. However, they should take heart. They can't see the 'big picture'. Just waiting for others to contact them and it not happening can be meaningless and not a reflection upon themselves - being proactive will usually bring results. We are not an internet dating site with thousands of people scrolling through an online catalogue (if that's what they want then there are countless such sites). Their details are only sent to selected fully paid-up members who have to a certain extent been screened - quality rather than quantity. It must be said though that the system has worked for many lucky 'free' members who althugh not being proactive have become one half of a happy couple based on the other party having put in the effort.

Numbers
Here is a nice email - and everyone sees things from their own perspective of course, based on their own personal experiences. "I did meet someone special through Singles Grapevine..(it didn't work out) ...so I was keen to start again. Amidst the huge numbers of on-line dating sites/introduction services yours was the only one that really works...let's hope we can achieve great results for the second time!"

If it's numbers alone someone is looking for, then like this lady they can join several internet dating sites. Everyone knows there are hundreds out there, many of them free and they obviously work for countless people. There are just different ways of going about things that suit different individuals. Many prefer a more personal and friendly approach where they have moral and practical support. Where Grapevine doesn't go for numbers for their own sake (and that can actually be quite overwhelming for some), our members have taken some trouble when submitting their details, they have taken the trouble to reply to my emails, and no new paying member will receive the details of other people without the first profiles being sent in the post to their home address. If they had ulterior motives they wouldn't bother with Grapevine I'm sure. No need. The internet is a 'free-for-all'. As you can imagine, posting stuff in the mail is likely to deter anybody with a wife (or husband) at home for a start! Members are accountable. If they ignore contacts their profiles are witheld. Single people don't pay for any dating service, internet or otherwise, to get messed about, so we must make sure our free members in particular are as responsible as possible! Sadly, unsuccessfully in a few cases in spite of everything I do:(

Reliability
It is surprising how many dates seem to be arranged for one party to duck out at the last moment. Is it cold feet or do they have too many dates on the go (should they be so lucky!)? This from a very attractive young lady: "I have been a little disheartened by being stood up by a couple of chaps recently (not in the sense of actually turning up for a date and waiting in vain, just being asked out and then arragnements being cancelled or never made!); maybe some guys just like you to say 'yes please' to being asked on a date to boost their egos," (good point), "but then decide they can't be bothered to follow through. Fortunately I have been hardened to all that kind of silliness and just keep looking for someone genuine!.."

Photos
For the sake of new members, I repeat from before these basic instructions about the sort of photo we would like to include.

No photo at all is much better than a bad one! A careless photo looks as though you don't feel it's worth the effort which is a total turn-off for anyone who receives your details. No photo can look like lack of effort also - though I know many people would prefer to exchange photos personally with people for reasons of confidentiality. Here is a rough guide to the sort of photo Grapevine likes to include.
1. Head and shoulders is all we use, and can crop if necessary, (if you are a small speck in a large photo then it will be too fuzzy!).
2. Not scruffy. Look smart or smart/casual if you seriously want people to contact you. Dressed is essential - for instance standing by a pool with dripping hair is not appropriate here.
3. Dignified. We don't want alluring semi-naked staged photos - people can always send any photos they wish direct to the other person. The photo is meant to show what a person you could meet looks like and useless if you wouldn't recognise them from the photo.
4. Honesty. Make sure the photo is recent. If a gentleman is bald, nobody is fooled if the top of his head is cut off the photo!
5. Be seen. If you are wearing dark glasses your face can't be seen. If you are wearing a hat you can't be seen properly either.
6. Don't use webcam. Photos taken by yourself look sad. They are invariably distorted or too close-up and do you no favour at all. A photo booth would be better.
7. Face Forward and look approachable. Try not to look unhappy - though laughing isn't necessary either. Try to look friendly and confident. Look into the camera.

Etiquette (for the sake of new members I have left this section in from last time)
Quite a lot of emails between me and members concerns uncertainty over the date itself - and this is usually the gentlemen I must say. Anyway - this is usually my response though you may not agree with it!: "If you were going out with me I would expect you to welcome me, buy first drinks and then I would expect to pay for the next round. I also would always offer to pay my share of a meal." Some men - especially older ones - insist, so it's not worth too much arguing! (A few I'm sad to say, both men and women, even feel they are doing the other person a favour by meeting them, and they leave the flabbergasted person with the whole bill!!! )

My advice is:
Don't be late.
Never stand someone up.
Dress appropriately (smart/casual?). Looking scruffy/dirty hair/unshaven (men!) is inexcusable when the other party will probably have put in the effort. Nose picking, beard picking and scratching definitely a no-no (I've heard it all - believe me!). Ladies - dress code not toooo sexy or too much make-up. Gentlemen - be at the venue first if possible, be welcoming. Helping the other person makes you forget about yourself! If he/she's hard work then at least you have done your bit.
Show interest and listen as well as talk. Difficult when you're a bit nervous because you feel frightened of silences!
Don't run down or ‘slag off’ past dates or your ex. It's very intimidating to date someone who tells you on the first date that he/she has belonged to every dating site there is and has lost count of how many dates he/she has been on.
Don't avoid eye contact - people don't like that!
Don't talk on mobile phone during a first date
Don't take a child or friend on a date (this unbelievably sometimes happens)
Don't escape through the toilet window!
Have a little humility. No other member of the human race is so unworthy that you can't be courteous for half an hour of your time should you find you have met someone you are not attracted to
Go Dutch on first date
Don't drink too much!
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3. Email problems and advice
Casual approach

Everyone has their own agenda - it's a free world in that respect - but I know what we want in Grapevine!!

Sometimes people forget they have signed up - or they use an email address they seldom check or have forgotten about which can be very frustrating for us all and which is why, at the end of every day, I personally send out about 100 emails to members who are not responding to my own emails in order to get a reply before I dare to circulate their profiles!

Here is an email from a lady who was surprised when a gentleman contacted her: "Hi Katherine, I have to say I'm sorry for not having replied...in all honesty I signed up in an idle moment then promptly forgot all about it...I think I should be considered as off the market as an ex boyfriend has returned to the scene....I do really like your way of operating though - I'm heartily sick of the 'free; internet sites and the morons that frequent them (actually that sentence must by definition include me!)......" I had to forgive her:-)

This gentleman was wondering why he had no contacts when he signed up for a second time but using a different email address. I emailed him telling him of his previous (Hotmail) account. This was his reply: "I don't understand about the Hotmail account. I must have forgotten because I never use it." Why include an email address that is never used? Grrrrrrrrr. His details had gone to quite a number of ladies in the first few days after he originally joined and before I stopped them due to a lack of response to myself, so I suggested he looked in his old Hotmail account. He had also forgotten his password - he told me he tried all combinations he could think of - so these emails were lost forever and there would be ladies thinking his lack of reply could be something personal he didn't like about them.

Another Hotmail moan: "Just to let you know I did get an email from you - it went straight to the junk box in my hotmail, so I have just found it." I have to double up all emails to Hotmail, MSN and some others with an email from a private account to reduce the possiblity of them being lost.

My 'agony aunt' (Auntie Katherine) hat
This recent email brings up two valuable points which I often deal with, taking them one at a time: "I wonder if I could bother you for some advice. Things are going very well on the whole. I am emailing one man at the moment who is really nice. I started the email contact about 3 weeks ago and wonder, if you start it, do they expect you to make the next move eg. towards a meeting?..." This was my reply, "So far as making the next move - it's my belief that people should keep the emailing period short and press on to a meeting otherwise it never happens. I don't think it's relevant which party suggests it. Some people don't seem to dare take that step or are even serial emailers which is safer than possibly being rejected. Just ask him - do you prefer just to email people or do you want to actually meet up for a drink?"

This is the jist of the second part of her email - a chap in his second email had made a reference to s-- (if I type the word then I get too many email bounce backs due to 'undesirable content'!) which, to her and many other ladies I correspond with, seems a bit off-putting at a stage when they had not even met. As I said before, everyone has their own agenda which is fair enough, but she needs to make clear her own. This was my response to this:
"....remember I'm old enough to be your mother so my views are probably old fashioned.......I feel talking of s-- at all in initial emails is not appropriate. I think you need to say this somehow. Just tell him you are ultimately looking for a meaningful relationship and feel a bit uneasy about references to sex before you have even met him. (S-- goes without saying when you fall in love doesn't it - it's obviously part of the ultimate package!!).

If arranging a meeting and risking rejection can take courage, even just emailing can for some people new to this. A new member says "..I must say that it is much easier to introduce oneself by organised email than any other means I have yet tried, nonetheless it can still be quite daunting sending an email and awaiting a rely...I still find a polite no thanks quite a mountain to overcome. And it takes a while before I try again." In my own earlier dating days we had to down a couple of glasses of Dutch courage and pick up the phone to call someone out of the blue. How much easier by email!

Language
It's important to make your email easy for the other person to read. Shorthand and slang are OK when texting and there is so little space, but not in personal emails. Here is this month's classic. When a new members signs up online, I personally go through their details to make sure eveything is OK for membership of Grapevine. Here is part of one I rejected: "Occupation: work 4 mod. Appearance (!): makin new friends. Interests: stayin in with sum1 i like. Find funny: sum1 with g/s/o/h. Holiday: sun,sea,and gr8 sex." Would you want to contact this person?? !

I wonder where this dropping of 'Gs' comes from? Is it from texting? Does it save that much time to type 'I enjoy suba divin, sunbathin, goin to cinema, winin & dinin'? Just looks silly to me I'm afraid. I'm not attacking anybody's spelling or grammar - just style:-)

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4. Expectations
Motives
Here is an email from a lady who is in the more mature age group where 'professional' single men are outnumbered by ladies (not only Grapevine but everywhere): "...I am still very much single, although looking back the three nicest men I have met in the last 2 years have been through Singles Grapevine. It's just that none of them had the commitment required. Let's try again!"
Here is another email from a lady in the same age group who more or less says the opposite: "I can see lots of men would prefer a younger woman, question is do the younger women want the older men? However, of the chaps I have met...all too often they appear to want an instant (FULL!!!) relationship or a woman to keep house and fix their lives for them, keep them comfortable and contribute substantially financially...I'm willing to do 50/50, but having divorced an emotionally and financially incontinent hustand, I don't want to repeat the experience..."
This third email is from a lady, same age group, who has the right attitude to survive all this and I'm sure she will get there in the end. "...just to update you on progress! Well, met with one guy, really nice, probably not for me but should remain a good friend. Another was seeing someone which is cool and ok. Contact with another probably building up eventually to meeting, and another has never replied after about 5 weeks so given up on him!! Interesting times! ...I feel more confident with this situation now...."

Sometimes people join only to find they aren't really ready. "....I have had a few contacts but in hindsight I have realised that maybe I was trying to do too much a bit too soon after my separation."

10/10
Whilst I always say no person is better than the wrong person, people can perhaps be just so choosy that they are doomed to failure. Maybe, perversely, this is what they actually want - to say there is never anyone suitable could be quite a way either of saving face or avoiding being rejected. It can take some people a lot of courage, particularly if they have been very hurt in the past.
"....I have just been turned down by email by a member after emailing each other for a few weeks as I was not professional enough....no complaints about the service though.." (Why though email for a few weeks? Why not just a few emails and arrange to meet to see if there is a spark? It's surely much more difficult to say a final goodbye to someone after a first date after they have become quite an intimate friend via emails, than to someone who is just an aquaintance).

Here is an email from a new gentleman about the first person he contacted which was not a good start for him - details omitted to save embarassment: "You may get a letter of complaint about me...I didn't mean to be rude ..I was probably insufferably pompous. The trouble is, with its list of requirements (this was very very detailed) it was more than a little intimidating, so I was probably a bit defensive..."

It's so important to start off well. "Thanks Katherine - all the gentlemen you have sent are in exactly the right vein and I can't believe my luck.....thanks for working on my behalf and guess what I am about to have my first date.."

This from a new gentleman: "Well either SG is full of committed people who want to get on and meet or I must have mad a good first impression!....I am trying to take a leaf out of your book - or should I say newsletter...photos are a funny thing ....I'm re-evaluating what 'my type' is! .....be brave and meet up! Life is funny...let's see where it takes me!"

Another email from a lady I encouraged to be more flexible: "Just to let you know, you may remember I had a hang up about short blokes and we had a conversation about not excluding people because of their height. Well this guy is 5'8" (she didn't actually meet him through SG in the end but it makes the point), not stunningly handsome, but a great personality and is lots of fun to be with..."

Here is another along a similar vein: "Thank you for the heartening newsletter, always good to hear of other people's trials, tribulations and successes!...sometimes I have read a profile and thought 'great' only to find after a couple of emails/phone calls that we aren't suited and vica versa. Also I am sometimes pleasantly surprised after initially being uninspired by a profile. I have contacted at least three quarters of the chaps you have sent me and I think they have all replied."

Smoking or Overweight
This is a fact - not a judgement on my part. Smokers and people who are significantly overweight (both men and women) get far fewer dates.These are both things that are not entirely out of their hands like their age or height though, so all is not lost! Many people who are overweight themselves, men especially, state they will not consider 'overweight' in the other person! Very few people who are not smokers themselves will meet smokers. Here are a couple of interesting statistics from the current database.
Approximate proportion of members across all age bands and areas who describe themselves as 'overweight, large, well-built, stocky or cuddly': ladies 1 in 12, men 1 in 7 (it's possible the ladies are more honest!). Members in the current database who smoke: ladies 1 in 5, gentlemen 1 in 4. So if you smoke, and for the most part only smokers will meet you, at least 75% of people are ruled out for you. Because paying members state their preferences, the details of smokers and people who are overweight get sent out infrequently. Again, this isn't judgement on my part (I'm very far from slim myself at the moment!), it's a statement of fact.
To finish the subject, here is an excerpt from an email from a lady: .."The problem with dating a smoker is not that they smoke in your presence....but it is that they go quiet or even quite moody and start fidgeting between courses, in the theatre etc. and then excuse themselves to go out into the street, so you are left on your own at intervals or between courses..I suppose one has the choice of standing in the rain with them during intervals....and then of course there is the matter of their breath, teeth, hair and clothing......" I wonder if this will inspire any single smokers who are not having much luck to give up? I used to smoke, and am so thankful that I stopped years ago.

'Professional'
What is Professional nowadays? What is semi-professional? Gone are the days when a public school educated solicitor represents 'professional'. It is beyond the 'remit' of something as general as Grapevine to cream off top professionals verging on aristocracy! People who want things narrowed down will be given those members conventionally termed as professionals along with 'semi-professionals'. It is such a grey area! I feel it's important to look beyond a person's job title. In determining a new member's category I look at the way he/she writes about himself/herself, interests, even his spelling! I personally know a postman who was previously a headmaster of a large school who decided to escape the rat race. Now, to me he's professional. We are talking about the person not the job he happens to be doing. Just an observation - nearly every time a member tells me the profiles I send are not all sufficiently professional it is a lady. Status seems more important to ladies than to the men (on the whole). The more 'rare' someone is (and certain kinds of people don't stay single long and don't need agencies at all), the more patient and realistic those wanting to meet these people will need to be. Like searching for a rare antique (apologies!).  All things in short supply 'cost' more, so where one person who is open minded may receive for their money 20 people they would like to contact, another may find just one!

To finish, here is a recent email from a professional lady: "...it’s not so much education that matters to me as outlook and curiosity – an inquiring mind. I like your definition of “professional” – looking beyond the job description. I have to say I mainly go on the interests/TV/films/books part of people’s description to get a sense of them. Smoking is the only “absolutely not”!
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Age
Every smallest newspaper article categorises people by age doesn't it. Ages are always to be found even if it has absolutely nothing to do with the story. 'Betty Smith, 45, lost her cat and Joe Blogs, 60, found it.'  If you meet an old friend, we all think 'I'm glad I haven't aged as much has him/her', don't we!

Nearly every one of us perceives ourselves as younger than our contemporaries, in looks in particular - especially compared to those of the same age of the opposite sex! I thought it might be interesting to look through the last 1000 members aged 40 or above and see how many actually wrote this in their details (there may be even more because I see it so many times that it begins to look silly and sometimes I remove reference to 'acting/looking younger than my age' - especially when there is a photo as well).

This is what I found:
LADIES (25% approximately mention 'young for age', and I quote the first ten I came across)
look a little younger than my years
told I look younger than my age,
look and feel younger than my age
I look younger than my years
look and act ten years younger
usually attract men younger than me as I look young for my age
people seem to take me to be much younger than my years
friends tell me I look younger than my years
often told I look ten years younger than my age
GENTLEMEN - 40% of men approximately mention looking younger than actual age. First ten I found:
I look younger that my years
younger looking than age suggests
I'm told I look very much younger than I am
friends say I look young for my age
look and feel younger than my years
people take me for 15 years younger
younger looking in mind and body than people of my age
my friends don't believe my age
young looking for my age

If personally I received 20 profiles and 8 of them said something like this, I think I would probably start with the others!

We had a good response from last newsletter's Gold membership offer to professional gentlemen late 40s and over who were happy meeting ladies of their own age group. Here's a quote from just one of them: "I am delighted to say that I am a scarce breed eg. aged over 45, professional and looking for a long term relationship with someone around my own age...."

Here is an excerpt from an email from a lady in her mid-fifties proving it can work even in the less eligible age groups - I had sent her the profiles of several gentlemen: ".....there was one who I felt the possibility (even hope) that it would turn into more. From our very first meeting I was aware that we were on the same wavelength about every topic of conversation....the relationship developed slowly and gently...we were both still very cautious...we both know it is the 'real thing...the rapport between us on every level has comletely knocked us both out....I will certainly recommend you to anyeone who I feel might benefit from your service as i feel the money I paid (which I have to admit was difficult to find and justify at the time) is definitely the best investment I have ever made!"

New members
I had this email from a lady recently. "..Where do you get most of your members from, what percentage is by word of mouth and how many just 'float by' as I have?" This is another example of how people, understandably, don't see the 'big picture' - and why should they? It's not their worry! This was part of my reply: "You think you just 'floated by'? You didn't really - it was via Google."

I spend hundreds of pounds on advertising with Google each month alone and even more with different internet things. I also do local newspaper advertising in many places to boost things in certain areas. With a business like this is that we are working hard to lose our clients! Most other businesses work hard to keep theirs! I would say about one fifth of new members come by word of mouth at the moment, though this is just a guess. We also get quite a number rejoining when things don't work out or if they still haven't found someone. This is an excerpt from an email I have just received from a lady who has rejoined with Gold membership:"..I've recommended you to a lot of friends too, I think you do a fantastic job, much better than dating sites."  I know it's not everybody's experience, but when someone rejoins saying someting like this, Grapevine must be doing something right. It is, as they say, horses for courses.

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6. The WINE BAR…….. the place where you, the members, can meet!
This is YOUR place in the newsletter where you could potentially get what you want to say to several thousand people. It's never too late to add your piece as the newsletter is constantly updated and going out to new members.

You may, for instance, like to start a dinner group in your area — or just organise a one-off meal. Here is the place to promote it.

******Making a new start
Are you in a relationship that is not working for you? Many of us stay in such
relationships because we cannot think of a way out. It takes a lot of courage to
just walk out. Many of us are afraid of being lonely so 'better the devil you know'.
Some of us do this even when we no longer love the person we are with.
Why not use the services of a specialist psychic to obtain a neutral second opinion?
You may just get the help you need and what a relief to know that you are not
losing your mind. Call Brian "the reluctant psychic" Snellgrove on 020 8670 4344 or visit
his web site http://www.save-your-relationship.co.uk or write info@save-your-relationship.co.uk

******Are you single over 18 and looking for a bit of winter romance in the South West?
Then Lovebus is the show for you. Our six guys and gals will embark on a 10 day magical
mystery tour of the South Wests hotspots taking part in a host of fun events
and activities in the search for their perfect match.They'll be groomed by a team of afficianados expert in the art of dating giving our 6 contestants all the skills they need to find that someone special.
Contestants must be available for the majority of the filming from Thursday
the 1st of December until Monday the 12th of December. For more info contact
Satellite Park Productions on 01752 333103 or email satellitepark@gmail.com  Matthew Balaam (Associate Producer)

******Northern Ireland - socialising for singles
Northern Ireland may not be the hottest of places for dating agencies, but
the end of the tunnel has a few strong lights. One of which is LETSGO
www.letsgoni.com - for whom I have worked as Webmaster for four years.
Certainly not a dating agency, just a group of single people getting out and
about to dinners, walks, dances and other events. Why not see what they have
to offer? Mark xxxxxxxxx (member 24988) xxxxxxxxxxxxm@hotmail.com

******Isle of Man
If any of our Isle of Man members would like to meet over dinner, one of our ladies has started 'Invitations'. Groups of 6 compatible diners - 3 ladies, 3 gents - will be invited to a 3-course dinner party in a private house - a way of making 5 new friends with luck. Email invitations@holcar.co.uk or ring xxxxxxx for details.

******Cambridge/Suffolk Area over 50s
Two mature, but young at heart, ladies are looking to start up an informal Club/Group, in the Cambridgeshire/Suffolk area, for unattached people ranging between the ages of 50 and 65 wishing to improve their social life. The aim ideally is to get an equal balance of male/female members. If there is sufficient interest, the first get together will probably be in the form of a dinner group somewhere central to the area, which will give us a chance to decide which leisure events can be organised, e.g. dancing, dining, walking groups or any other social activities you may like to suggest. This will be a good opportunity to meet up with like-mined people for entertaining conversation, good food and enjoyable events. I'm sure you'll agree that any group is only as good as the members make it, so here’s your chance to make a difference – do pick up the phone, we’d love to hear from you.
If this is an idea that appeals to you, please register your interest by e-mailing to xxxxxxxxxxx giving your name, address, phone number and e-mail address.

******Get out and Socialise in the South
Grapevine member would like to set up an informal social group for unattached people between the ages of 40 and 60 who live in the Portsmouth/Southampton/Winchester areas and would like to meet new people in informal and relaxed environments. Here's your chance to extend your circle of friends, both male and female. It is envisaged that initially the group will meet up at wine bars, pubs or restaurants depending on numbers. If you are interested please e-mail xxxxxxx

******Social Group in Buckinghamshire
Two's Company - the aim of this group is for members to extend their circle of unattached friends. We meet every other Wednesday in Villiers Hotel, Buckingham. For further information please e mail Judith at xxxxxxx

******Activity Group in South Wales
Derek, an ex-member belongs to an activity group in South Wales based in Cardiff and thinks those of you living in his area or just visiting for a week or two may be interested. He says the members are a lovely group of people, warm and friendly. The website is www.sherewhenwales.com

******Meet At Last Singles Parties - London area
Meet at Last is singles parties without the pressure for fabulous singletons – just turn up, meet some people and have fun. No formal introductions or speed dating, no name badges or gimmicks, simply a great night out. Visit the site to see when the next party is. Tickets are around £15 with the option of a pre-party warm up get together with TV Dating Coaches Jo & Kirsty for just £25.  Tickets must be booked in advance – places are limited. To book your ticket visit www.meetatlast.com/singlesgrapevine.htm or email the organiser Clare at clare@meetatlast.com with any queries.

******Far Infrared Sauna - for the ultimate in well-being
My neighbours have now been using their far infrared sauna for a few weeks, and if I had somewhere to put it I would definitely have one myself - I think I could do with it! It seems to do just about everything, and checking on the internet I don't think its claims are exaggerated. It seems that regular use of this kind of far infrared sauna gets rid of toxins in a certain way, and there is a marked improvement in all sorts of things - skin and hair, general pain (headaches, joint pain etc.), resistance to infection...but what interests me the most personally as many testimonials report (and which my neighbours verify already), is a general feeling of well-being and energy. I may be going over the top if I carry on any more - but why not phone Iain (member 14745) on 01933 303077 for more information, or email him on ultimate.sauna@virgin.net

******This month's bit of nonsense recieved from a member!
There is so much rubbish being forwarded to me that most of it I don't even read (though I have one source in the Isle of man who seems to gather some really great ones - she will know who she is). Anyway, here is one I enjoyed!:

Taken (I am told!) from the Guardian, an actual letter sent by the Inland Revenue:
Dear Mr Addison,
I am writing to you to express our thanks for your more than prompt reply to our latest communication, and also to answer some of the points you raise.  I will address them, as ever, in order.
Firstly, I must take issue with your description of our last as a "begging letter".  It might perhaps more properly be referred to as a "tax demand".  This is how we, at the Inland Revenue have always, for reasons of accuracy; traditionally referred to such documents.
Secondly, your frustration at our adding to the "endless stream of crapulent whining and panhandling vomited daily through the letterbox on to the doormat" has been noted.  However, whilst I have naturally not seen the other letters to which you refer I would cautiously suggest that their being from "pauper councils, Lombardy pirate banking houses and pissant gas-mongerers" might indicate that your decision to "file them next to the toilet in case of emergencies" is at best a little ill-advised.  In common with my own organisation, it is unlikely that the senders of these letters do see you as a "lackwit bumpkin" or, come to that, a "sodding charity".  More likely they see you as a citizen of Great Britain, with a responsibility to contribute to the upkeep of the nation as a whole.
Which brings me to my next point.  Whilst there may be some spirit of truth in your assertion that the taxes you pay "go to shore up the canker-blighted, toppling folly that is the Public Services", a moment's rudimentary calculation ought to disabuse you of the notion that the government in any way expects you to "stump for the whole damned party" yourself.  The estimates you provide for the Chancellor's disbursement of the funds levied by taxation, whilst colourful, are, in fairness, a little off the mark. Less than you seem to imagine is spent on "junkets for Bunterish lickspittles" and "dancing whores" whilst far more than you have accounted for is allocated to, for example, "that box-ticking façade of a university system."
A couple of technical points arising from direct queries:
1.    The reason we don't simply write "Muggins" on the envelope has to do with the vagaries of the postal system.
2.      You can rest assured that "sucking the very marrow’s of those with nothing else to give" has never been considered as a practice because even if the Personal Allowance didn't render it irrelevant, the sheer medical logistics involved would make it financially unviable.
 
I trust this has helped. In the meantime, whilst I would not in any way wish to influence your decision one way or the other, I ought to point out that even if you did choose to "give the whole foul jamboree up and go and live in India" you would still owe us the money.  Please forward it by Friday.    Yours Sincerely, H J Lee, Customer Relations

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Please keep in touch. I always respond to all your emails as quickly and as fully as I can. Don't forget to take a look at your own place in this newsletter - the Wine Bar - and get together with lots and lots of other single people.

from Katherine

PS. If you'd like to rejoin or upgrade and have dates of your own, please go to www.singlesgrapevine.co.uk/upgrade.htm

ABOUT FISHES AND PONDS

And finally.....fishing!
Looking for a partner can need a lot of patience, and like fishes, a lot of them seem to be slippery or don't want to be caught at all by you. Very frustrating! These fish also have a say in who reels them in! Some just don't bite, some fall off just as you are about to land them. I think the analogy is quite good. The more rare the type of fish you're looking for, the fewer there will be. In some lakes there are just too few fish of a certain kind and too many fishermen/women. Som